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This idea that we could have prevented our WS from cheating is a natural function of our brains. Any time we encounter trauma, our brains rewire themselves in order to avoid a similar situation in the future. If you've ever burned yourself on a stove, for instance, your brain will do its best to ensure it doesn't happen again. There are plenty of examples one could find.

Betrayals are different. These are traumatic events over which we had no control. Nothing you ever said or didn't say, nothing you ever did or didn't do, would have made any difference. And yet our brains still seek out a way to avoid similar situations.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 5:46 PM, Sunday, June 8th]

She was begging, figuratively screaming for attention, affection, and intimacy and I wasn't there for her. We were living like roommates. She was starved for attention and someone showed up that gave it to her. Normally, in the past, she would have shut it down, told me about it, and clung to me. It's happened before. She's a pretty girl. If I had been there for her I really don't think this would have happened.

No,just NO..... this is not on you...

I can relate to this in so many ways. My spouse was not there for me emotionally for different reasons, had poor communication and blew off my attempts at intimacy for many years, and I didn't have an affair.

I have, and would again, push away any attempts from another guy. Once, it occurred to me for half a second before I shut that thought down permanently because I cared about and loved my husband and would never do that to him, no matter our problems.

Yes, there were problems in your marriage that you have a responsibility for as does she, BUT her DECISION to have an affair was ALL about her bad choices not about you.

This is just so damned emotionally devastating.

Toward the end of counseling, our IC/MC revealed he was also a betrayed spouse. His M ended in D — he said his wife’s A was an unapologetic exit A, and he was proud single dad at that point in life. But the keys were, he understood my pain, and he made sure my wife kept herself accountable for her choices (she did too, it wasn’t a point of contention).

He said something that helped me understand the level of pain I was in, to be kind to myself, give me some time to get on my feet — he noted infidelity is the emotional equivalent of being hit by a bus.

In other words, it takes a long time to heal up from this.

The trauma is real, as you well know already.

In that sense, give yourself some room here, don’t waste time beating yourself up (although, you’ll be tempted).

It’s fine you’re showing your wife some empathy with your examination of everything. It shows you’re a good person trying to be a better person. As long as she is showing you some empathy for your pain, there is a hint of something to work with (if that remains the goal).

She's still in this "I don't know what I was thinking. I didn't recognize myself, and I hate myself for doing this. I absolutely hate myself for it" stage. She tells me that not day goes by, not a minute out of those days that goes by that she doesn't regret it.

Here is where her work is.

The question remains then, next time the relationship is under duress, does she respond the same way? She has to know why she turned away from the M, instead of toward the M on the tough days.

As for your pain, again, be good to yourself. I think my fellow members here called the next few months the "emotional roller coaster" — one step forward, three steps back.

Process it all, don’t bury anything. The more I tried to bury some of my negative feelings, the slower my healing was.

Again, vent early, vent often.

It helped so much to write it all out here on SI.

No,just NO..... this is not on you...

I can relate to this in so many ways. My spouse was not there for me emotionally for different reasons, had poor communication and blew off my attempts at intimacy for many years, and I didn't have an affair.

I have, and would again, push away any attempts from another guy. Once, it occurred to me for half a second before I shut that thought down permanently because I cared about and loved my husband and would never do that to him, no matter our problems.

Yes, there were problems in your marriage that you have a responsibility for as does she, BUT her DECISION to have an affair was ALL about her bad choices not about you.

Intellectually I know that, but it just nags at the back of my mind and it's hard to shake. I'm not falling into that trap and allowing her bad decisions to be blamed on me, tho. We had over 26 years of exclusivity, several of those troubled, before this happened. As far as any communication or talking between her and I go, I'm standing strong and not taking any of the blame for it. I'm not apologizing for her shitty decisions. I refuse to. It's on her, and she knows it is. To her credit, she is taking full responsibility for the affair now. She did try to shift some of the blame at first, but after reading some books, articles here, and some conversations about it, she's completely pulled it back and only apologizes for it now. She knows she fucked up. She knows this is all on her. There are a bunch of things she could have done that didn't involve betraying me, and I've pointed several of them out.

Thank you so much for the positive reinforcement tho. I need to hear it, and I really do appreciate it.

This idea that we could have prevented our WS from cheating is a natural function of our brains. Any time we encounter trauma, our brains rewire themselves in order to avoid a similar situation in the future. If you've ever burned yourself on a stove, for instance, your brain will do its best to ensure it doesn't happen again. There are plenty of examples one could find.

Betrayals are different. These are traumatic events over which we had no control. Nothing you ever said or didn't say, nothing you ever did or didn't do, would have made any difference. And yet our brains still seek out a way to avoid similar situations.

I know man. I really appreciate your replies, too. Thanks for having my back and looking out. I really do appreciate it.

It’s fine you’re showing your wife some empathy with your examination of everything. It shows you’re a good person trying to be a better person. As long as she is showing you some empathy for your pain, there is a hint of something to work with (if that remains the goal).

I am trying. I've made some big changes, and they're paying off. She has, too. What I'm not doing is allowing any blame for the actual affair fall on me.

It's a little different in my wife's case with her condition. She has epilepsy. It was completely under control, but she's had some seizures over the last 15 years or so. One really bad one almost 2 years ago that scared the crap out of me. I was afraid I was going to lose her that night. It was really scary. She's currently driving restricted, and I've always sort of done for her with the extra driving, helping her understand things, making the major decisions, and the want to just... take care of her and make her life easier. She suffered head trauma when she was an infant and hates that she has this condition. The head trauma did affect her cognitive abilities to empathize and process consequences. It always has. Not that it's an excuse, but it is a factor. You'd never know it until you get to know her very well, tho. She went 20 years without a seizure, and was completely self sufficient, then about 15 years ago they started happening again. She's gotten driving restricted for a few months every time it had happened, but is currently on 9 months without driving at all right now after the last one, and were not sure when she'll be able to again, if ever. She has an appointment with her neurologist in July and we'll find out then, tho I'm nervous about her getting behind the wheel either way. Like I said, she went a couple of decades without any issues and was completely self sufficient until they started happening again.

It's been really hard on her, the added stress of this situation isn't a good thing, and I find myself wanting to alleviate it as much as possible, but Jesus christ she made the mother of all fuckups with this one. Like I said, I'm not allowing any of the blame to be put on me, but at the same time I have been showing her a lot more love and affection on the flipside of it. So I've been bouncing back and forth between being completely devastated and upset with her, and at the same time trying to make up for the lack of attention and affection I wasn't showing her for years. The good is really good, but I'm not hiding my hurt or pain either. She needs to know what this has done to me, and to her credit she's been responding by doing and saying all of the right things. We've been hysterically bonding both emotionally and physically for almost 2 months straight now.

Here is where her work is.

The question remains then, next time the relationship is under duress, does she respond the same way? She has to know why she turned away from the M, instead of toward the M on the tough days.

I know, and we're working on that part. Were still kicking around getting some IC for both of us. I know that "I dont know what I was thinking" is not a satisfactory answer, but for her it's going to take a lot of digging and possibly some specialized therapy. She's not great at introspection or complex ideas and concepts, but I've been challenging her, and am confident she's genuinely remorseful and has no intentions of ever doing anything like this again. She's definitely a "learn the hard way" type, and I really do believe this has been a very hard, but well learned lesson. IC isn't off the table, and it's not a matter of being unwilling to do the work, but spending the money for it is making us hesitant. I really do think we've made a lot of progress without it so far, but I know it's still really early. We've got it on the back burner for now, but if things look like they might get hairy we will move it to front and center.

[This message edited by Pogre at 7:18 PM, Sunday, June 8th]

Well, we did make it for over 26 years. This came out of nowhere. It was with 1 person, and fairly short lived. A couple of months of him hitting on her, then they had 3 trysts within a 2 week period before I found out. It's totally out of character for her, and she seems as shocked as I am about it. Tho it's not like it was an accident or a "whoopsie," either...

Most of not all of us BS are shocked to find out we were cheated on and our spouses aren’t who we thought they were (or are). I met my wife at 18 and we had been "together" over 40 years when I found out the truth about her. I didn’t really know her at all. I loved who I thought she was, not who she really was (or is). There were plenty of red flags along the way. I caught her in an EA early in our marriage. I thought I had "averted disaster" because it hadn’t gone physical "yet". There were red flags along the way. When I found out she had been cheating early in our marriage, I was surprised but not really shocked. Her later affairs totally baffled me. There were no signs or red flags. She treated me well, sex was great, I thought we "had made it". She had just "honed her craft" by then.

Your writing shows strong evidence of being really torn between "what your heart wants" and "what your mind knows". Some of your statements reflect this and are in direct conflict. You also acknowledge you KNOW this. This is known in the Infidelity community as "hopium". We all experience it to some degree or another. We want and hope so much for certain things to be true we try to will them into existence. Things like "wanting the truth" but being gobsmacked by "too much truth I didn’t want or ask for" is in alignment with this. You even use the phrase "she seems…" multiple times when speaking of your wife’s actions. Like you aren’t totally bought in that it’s all "real" and her true convictions just yet. This is where IC could be useful for you (and your wife). Books are great. YouTube can be great. This website can be great. IMO, there is no substitute for talking it out with a professional. Especially if you want to do MC at some point. You already are taking on a ton of "I damaged the marriage too" guilt and MC feeds upon that heavily in my personal experience. Two broken individuals should work on healing themselves before tackling the relationship IMO. My wife also used "I don’t know why I cheated" and "I wasn’t myself". I refused to believe that and through months of IC, she also realized she knew EXACTLY why she cheated, it WAS who she was and until she accepted that and worked to correct it, she would be vulnerable for additional failures in the marriage and not fit to be a "true life partner". Unfortunately, she stopped IC after 2 years along with any and all recovery work and started rug sweeping.

You are still VERY early in this journey. It’s great to have hope and work towards R if you both truly want that. Just don’t let your heart pull the wool over your brain’s eyes to your own detriment…..

[This message edited by ImaChump at 7:41 PM, Sunday, June 8th]

You are still VERY early in this journey. It’s great to have hope and work towards R if you both truly want that. Just don’t let your heart pull the wool over your brain’s eyes to your own detriment…..

I'm very much going to take this to heart. Yes, I'm using words like "seems to" very intentionally because I know it's so early into it, and as well as I thought I knew her, the affair still happened. I'm very aware I'm being somewhat contradictory and huffing some hopium right now. I'm trying to be very cautious with my thoughts and wording because I don't want to let my guard down. It's as much for myself as for the people I'm talking to. I am torn between what my heart wants and what my mind knows. Despite the fact that she's doing and saying all of the right things, again, it still happened, and I don't want to be blindsided again. No, I'm not 100% bought into her yet. She turned the corner awfully fast, and that's kind of a red flag to me in itself. I have questions and still harbor a lot of doubts, but I think that's okay having been thrust into this situation that was out of my control.

I did do my share to damage the marriage, and I'll own that, but I did not, however, make her do what she did, and I will not own any part of that. I am standing strong on that hill, even if I'm expressing my regrets about it here. She's knows this is on her, and I've made it clear that I won't accept anything else.

I just can't believe it even happened...

I just can't believe it even happened...

I think I said this to myself, about one million times over the 9-years since discovery. Based on the speed of thought, the number may actually be low.

Especially in the early days of full on shock of the whole thing.

Later on, the circular thinking, the ruminating, this kind of stuff that is stealing your sleep — it is part of the PTSD of it all. Your brain is trying to find a pattern that changes your pain and the causes of your pain, into a less-painful ending. I wish the mental part of healing had short cuts, I really do. But we have to keep processing it until we have found some level of understanding of a situation we never imagined.

It's as much for myself as for the people I'm talking to. I am torn between what my heart wants and what my mind knows.

While the circumstances and behaviors for cheating are frighteningly near universal, we all heal up different, in our own way, at our own pace. Take your time on all of it, catch your breath, go do something you really rely on for a sense of fun or joy. Unfortunately, recovery is a marathon, whichever path you end up on.

As to the heart, I can say in my case, love wasn’t enough to stop an A from happening and love wasn’t enough to save our R — not love alone anyway.

In my case, we needed to really rebuild day to day communication, rebuild some level of trust and it took a couple YEARS of her consistent actions for me to believe in us, believe we had a shot. Because those questions, they will keep coming, no matter how many times they get answered. It takes time and so much effort to build back to each other. HB is great, but it ain’t enough. Consistent kind and thoughtful actions, and then add some heart in there, will get you a chance.

First get your feet back underneath you, and you’ll be able to figure out your path to other side of this.

Just coming up now on three years from my wife's disclosure ( partial initially) of her multiple affairs through the first three decades of our marriage and one of the first things I noticed when she created a timeline was that she had been in active sexual and emotional relationships with other men on Anniversaries number four, five, seven and eight. In fact I clearly recall how she suddenly had to return to work on the afternoon of our fourth Anniversary, claiming an emergency staffing issue at the ER where she was acting head nurse. On pressing her, she finally admitted this was to join a certain senior doctor for hijinks as he had phoned her saying he had light duties that afternoon and had invited her to meet him again in the oncall bedroom.
So I understand very well all the ways this truly has a capacity to create waves of doubt, anger and resentment in a relationship that has in many respects been renewed through truth and reconciliation.
I came to the realization however, that if I wanted to remain in a new healthy marriage with my wife, I had to seek the sort of trauma help from a good therapist that would assist me in processing all the strong emotions I still felt about what is a cherry of ultimate disrespect and disdain on top of the big, smelly crap-cake of infidelity. I wish you good luck in finding that guidance, it sure helped me.

Thank you so much for the positive reinforcement tho. I need to hear it, and I really do appreciate it.

I am also saying it to myself as I have been having similar self-blaming thoughts "if only I was thinner, prettier, younger" or "If only I hadn't spent time away from him to follow my dreams, even though he encouraged me to" or "if I hadn't got disabled" he wouldn't have been interested in seeking out other women.

But in reality he did this when I was younger or thinner or not disabled. Heck, even when he was sitting beside me he was chatting up women and when I was home upstairs he was video-calling a naked woman... 😳 So I also know this intellectually, but still struggle with wondering why he felt I wasn't good enough for him. .

Pogre, I relate to you in a lot of ways. Our stories are different, except you are a lot like my husband, but you didn't stray, and I am a lot like your wife and I didn't stray. However, I am learning a bunch by reading your threads thanks for posting and being so open!

I like to use analogies because the actual damage to the brain from this kind of shock and stress is real. So my simplistic analogy is to think of this as if she shot you a couple of times.

Hey, Pogre, while you are lying on the floor bleeding from the bullets is scary and I am really sorry. I know I have nicked you with knives over the years but that was just funning. This gun was too compelling to use and I needed a target but I didn’t know you were going to bleed that much. It is probably going to take me several bottles of bleach to clean it up. Really, I am sorry you are hurting. I can’t figure out why I wanted to pull the trigger so badly. It is a big oops on my part. I probably won’t do it again. Ok here’s the ambulance(therapist) to fix you right up.

That is indeed quite a colorful, if apt, analogy. It is like being left emotionally bleeding out on the floor.

She really is doing everything she can to try and patch this up though. She blew off hanging out with a couple of her friends yesterday to do something with me. I didn't ask her to, she just volunteered. She usually goes and hangs out at her hair place for a couple of hours to chat and catch up with some of her friends once or twice a week, but pretty much every single Monday because it's her good friend's late day.

It's just right down the street so I drop her off and pick her back up or do some grocery shopping there in the plaza while she hangs out. It's kind of like a barber shop hangout session only they're all women.

@oldwounds

Not trying to hijack here, but after 40+ years of marriage, not knowing who your wife was, what was it she did to give you comfort that she hadn’t fooled you again?

How did you reconcile that?

I’m only 8 months from d-day, and I too feel like the wife I thought I knew could never have betrayed me. I don’t know if my brain will ever let me forget that it could happen again. And I suppose most importantly, I really have no idea what my WW could do to make it better for me at this point.

I really hate being away from her, so much so I’m ironically leaning more and more towards divorce. Because at least then I will have no expectations that she will be faithful. Sure, I’ll be alone. But I’ll no longer feel abandoned and in constant fight or flight ptsd mode when she’s away.

Is there any way you could describe how your WW provided you with a feeling that it would not happen again and the marriage was real?

Hey 4characters-

@oldwounds

Not trying to hijack here, but after 40+ years of marriage, not knowing who your wife was, what was it she did to give you comfort that she hadn’t fooled you again?

How did you reconcile that?

Her A did not end how she thought it might, her AP dumped her in a really harsh manner — and she kept the secret for a very long time. But what she learned on her own was, the A wasn’t anything to be proud of and made her feel like she risked it all for nothing. That was her own take-away.

She kept the secret, because she was certain, and I thought I was too, that I would walk once I knew the truth.

Some WS are bad people who do bad things, or are just too selfish to see the damage their choices cause.

Some WS are decent people who fail big.

My wife hates what happened as much as I do.

That’s where we started the conversation to see where we could go from there.

I’m only 8 months from d-day, and I too feel like the wife I thought I knew could never have betrayed me. I don’t know if my brain will ever let me forget that it could happen again. And I suppose most importantly, I really have no idea what my WW could do to make it better for me at this point.

At eight months out, I didn’t have any solid answers at all, I don’t know that I knew I would stay until about 2-years of working on the relationship.

The honest answer about "making it better" — there is NO way for a WS to be able to make up for what happened. It’s a permanent injustice. It’s an emotional scar, whether we R or D.

I appreciate that my wife tries to make up for it anyway — through constant kindness, and giving me whatever room I need, whenever I need it.

Is there any way you could describe how your WW provided you with a feeling that it would not happen again and the marriage was real?

I trust me.

I trust what I learned about her previous behavior.

I know exactly what her spiral down and out looks like and sounds like.

No relationship is bullet-proof, not this one or any other I would have if I choose to move on (which is always an option).

Ultimately, my wife and I learned how to be together in a better way.

We talk more, we listen more, we act far better to each other than we used to. That’s real. And if for whatever reason the M goes sideways, I’ll be good and am glad I gave her one final chance to show me her best self.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 11:08 PM, Tuesday, June 10th]

Thank you, Oldwounds. That’s helpful perspective.

Pogre

We talk more, we listen more, we act far better to each other than we used to. That’s real. And if for whatever reason the M goes sideways, I’ll be good and am glad I gave her one final chance to show me her best self.

Others have already said what you have to sort out moving forward.

Oldwounds post (quoted) is a good summation.

You have your reasons for not divorcing your spouse. Your pride should not be one of them other than you are honoring marriage vow "In sickness and in health. . ."

FWIW - my experience was over 40 years ago now - life is good - but the memory will never fade. This you have to figure out how to master your feelings about the memory when it pops to the front of your moment of thinking.

Maybe ask yourself the long question: "Am I better of staying with WW or going my own way separately?"

Others have already said what you have to sort out moving forward.

Oldwounds post (quoted) is a good summation.

You have your reasons for not divorcing your spouse. Your pride should not be one of them other than you are honoring marriage vow "In sickness and in health. . ."

FWIW - my experience was over 40 years ago now - life is good - but the memory will never fade. This you have to figure out how to master your feelings about the memory when it pops to the front of your moment of thinking.

Maybe ask yourself the long question: "Am I better of staying with WW or going my own way separately?"

Oldwounds' quote hits close to home, because even tho it's only been a couple of months, it describes us right now. We are talking, listening to each other, and treating each other far better than we used to. She's become an open book, as have I, and I'm convinced she's genuinely remorseful and deeply regrets it. I think what we've been going through could be chalked up to hysterical bonding, both emotionally and physically, but it's been going on for almost 2 solid months now, and there's no sign of it slowing down.

I don't know if pride is a factor or not. I suppose it could be, but there is also the fact that I really do love her, always have, and I'm absolutely convinced it's reciprocated. She calls me every day from work to tell me she's thinking about me, "last night was wonderful," and that she can't wait to come home for some couch time. That's in addition to lots of texts back and forth throughout the day saying the same things. She hasn't been acting odd, shutting herself in the other room on the phone for hours at a time, or finding excuses to hang out with friends anymore. She's gone completely NC with her AP, blocked him, and expresses disgust and animosity toward him. I know her whereabouts 24/7 now, have open access to her phone and tablet, and she's almost completely cut ties with the friend she was using as a cover story for the PA when I found out. All of it voluntarily on her part. She used to hang out with that friend a few times a week for a few hours at a time. She hasn't been there since d day despite repeated requests to come over. She messaged her yesterday to explain that she won't be coming over anytime soon because of the situation. That it's understandably a major trigger for me, and she's working on rebuilding our marriage. She really is prioritizing me and our marriage above everything else right now.

We've been together for almost 28 years, 27 of that married, and we've never come close to breaking up before. For all of that time I've always loved her, even if I was checked out for several years. We've been together for half of our lives now, so I suppose there's a codependency factor to consider. Aside from this short lived affair she's always been there for me when a lot of people would have given up. I want to give her this chance. To give us a second chance. I really do. I'm just having a hard time accepting that it even happened and the mental images of her with another man are really driving me up the wall. Can I learn to live with it? I don't know, but I'm willing to give it a shot. She's doing everything right now, and if she keeps it up I think we have a chance.

I just got off the phone with her right now and did a little bit of trauma dumping. She was very apologetic, said she understands it's going to take time for me to get through this, reassured me that no matter what she's in it for the long haul, and "willing to do whatever it takes." I do believe her. I believe she really means it. But you know, I thought I knew her and could believe her before, too. During the affair, and for a short while after d day, while she was still caught up in the fog, her words and actions weren't very much in alignment. They are now. She's done a 180 of her own, and I do believe rebuilding our marriage is her number one priority right now. She's said many times that she's very grateful I've given her a second chance amd really doesn't want to blow it. I believe her.

I just still can't believe it even happened. It's hard wrapping my mind around it all. The sneaking around, the lies, the deception... what a mindfuck. That's all come to a screeching halt, tho, and I believe she's come clean about everything. She's answering all of my questions. Even the stuff that's hard to admit to and makes her uncomfortable. Anything that smacks of dishonesty, deception, secretiveness, or sneaky shit is an absolute deal breaker for me and she knows it.